Fia Backstrom Interviewed by Ana Cardoso
On Leadership
Ana: You were just in London working on a project called The Golden Voice...
Fia: It has a larger title, Studies in Leadership, which is a longer project that I’ve been working on since a couple of months. And this sub-section was called Studies in Leadership – The Golden Voice. It was at ICA in London, in the format of a residency, but the residency was open to the audience and lasted for seven days. I was in the space everyday, which I had turned into something in between a TV studio and a say… an oratory…
Ana: Conference room?
Fia: Something like that… a place where you can deliver speeches in front of an audience. I invited guests, as in any regular talk show or TV show. The guests were various experts on public delivery. There was a voice coach, a specialist in terrorist economy for the sake of content, and then a voice actor that I worked with for one day… then I screened films. The different components of the environment were included at different times; such as the furniture, where we could sit around and talk, and a lectern to give speeches from. Everything was made from cardboard – it was all disposable and recyclable, it was a sketch format. There were banners, big banners, propaganda size with scanned pages from books on professional speech delivery and public speaking advice. They functioned as a background stream of information.
Ana: Also connected to politics…
Fia: Absolutely, to politics and to corporations. I selected a few speeches – then worked with the image and the sound of these speeches, to distort them in various ways. The speeches ranged between Barrack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Steve Jobs. Then there were more historical ones, the ones we connect to public speech, such as Malcom X and Bobby Kennedy.
Ana: So you destroyed those speeches, separating the image from the voice and the text… And how did that work out, what’s the result like?
Fia: What I did was, I went backwards from the finalized speech lifting out words and sentences, as layers of language on top of the image, the image of the delivered speech was torn, the gestures and postures were isolated. I used Aftereffects in the wrong way to break apart the face and the body of the speaker, as well as the sound…
Ana: So in a way it’s just destroyed somehow…
Fia: Broken apart into fragments out of this full, saturated image that exists…
Ana: To make a perfect project imperfect… And who talked about terrorism?
Fia: Loretta Napoleoni came and spoke departing from her book called “Rogue Economics” on the new kind of leadership, which emerged after the Berlin Wall fell, with leaders such as Bóris Iéltsin. How they managed to convince their citizens, while manipulating their public persona in contrast to what they actually delivered.
Ana: She spoke about techniques?
Fia: Not really, she is more theoretically involved in how the economy developed through these years, and the changes in the way the world functions since 89/91 up to now. She spoke about how Iéltsin, for example, destroyed the former Soviet Union by working with image and the media.
Ana: Right, about the image and how to deliver a message through these contemporary channels…
Fia: She is Italian in fact, so we spoke a lot about Mussolini and his populist delivery. She compared him to Obama, and the way he manages to get the crowd going. It worked really well in the environment, because one of the dissolved speeches was Obama’s inauguration speech. It became funny, screened it was totally twisted and we used examples from it.
Ana: That must have been interesting because Obama just won, and he’s there, and it’s consensual – everybody wants to believe in him and gets really inspired by his speeches. So it must have been very interesting to see the result of deconstructing Obama, right now, at early stages…
Fia: It was interesting. The voice coach, who works with politicians and corporate leaders engaged in the environment in another way. We worked with the visitors in the workshop towards skills for professional political leadership – there were seven or eight participants. I had the speeches printed out, we worked from them, one was Ronald Reagan, another was Margaret Thatcher, and so forth… and then the voice coach worked with every word pronounced and the hand gestures and so on…
Ana: Nice… You know, I was invited to apply to some cultural program British Council was promoting. They were selecting cultural leaders and one of their main concerns was “what’s your leadership style?” They interviewed me on by phone, I was in New York, and I said “I’m a soft leader”!
Fia: The “soft leader” is very interesting, someone like Steve Jobs, who makes it seem as if we’re in a hippy commune. Or as Zizek pointed out in the documentary on him; the seventies child rearing of the you-can-do-whatever-you-want disciplinarian might be the most oppressive type of leadership in its indirect internalization of expectations. Facing the dictatorial type, the structure of power is laid bare, which makes it easier to rebel against.
Ana: Right. But they want cultural leaders! And what kind of leader that can be – it’s a very good question.
Fia: I agree. I think your answering the “soft leader” is a very contemporary one. It’s funny you said that automatically, it’s so embedded in our culture, but no one thinks a bit about the formation of this position.
Ana: I totally answered automatically! (laughs)
And how did this project start? What brought you to this project?
Fia: I’ve worked a lot on ideas on contemporary co-existence. After focusing on forms of communality I understood - it’s kind of obvious - that every group needs a leader, and that dynamically the group will form according to leadership style. Political and corporate leaders are appointed, but as an artist entering a project, you are the self-ascribed leader. The role of the artist is really an autocratic position, or at least you are expected to be. One can say almost whatever… “No, this wall should be green, and it will hardly be questioned!” (laughs)
Ana: And you wrote about collaboration… usually collaboration is seen in a very positive way, and can be, but you wrote about it also from the other side of it.
Fia: I was trying to de-romanticize what this word can mean, and to see undercurrents of ideas more specifically – what kind of relationship are we having here really? – so many exchanges goes under the guise of collaboration when actually other more crucial relations are taking place.
Ana: Actually, like with the “soft leader”, because it can be as Zizek said – when you are trying not to be something it can be more oppressive. And going back to the leadership project, what else was going on at ICA?
Fia: The main umbrella show was called Talk Show. It was a really fantastic and a fluid kind of situation or show. There were regular pieces by artists like Falke Pisano, Pierre Bismuth and Seth Price, like a regular show. At the same time there was a continuous flow of performances, lectures, concerts and people rehearsing for the evening concerts inside the exhibition space. There were two other artists or artist groups, Melanie Gilligan and Castillo Corrales, who had been given the space as a residency before me. There were constantly different things going on.
One of the interesting things about this format of the residency is that I came with an un-finished piece to work, but in front of an audience. I had set some parameters to what I wanted to do, but the final form of the work – that’s what I’m going to work with now, once I get back – it can be a film, a record, a transcript, another spoken word of some kind… so it’s a really good warp to openness of structure and purpose.
Ana: Yes, it’s very interesting. That happens a lot though… well, but you were in a residency!
Fia: It was a morphing format – nobody knew how to handle it.
Ana: And Fia, what about your leadership style? How do you see yourself as a leader?
Fia: Well, for the first iteration of Studies in Leadership, which was in St.Louis with Anthony Huberman I made an experiment.
Ana: So it started there, kind of…
Fia: Yes, it was called Studies in Leadership: A Family Affair. I made the decision to be a “soft leader” artist, somebody who works in a contemporary delegated flat structure. At the same time I was interested in the backside of this contemporaneity, the failed artist, without a vision – the same idea flipped. I knew that we were going to make a show, I knew that we were going to use things that you make a show with – for example wall paint, projectors, some kind of construction materials, that’s it. The staff and the installers, came everyday to ask me: “So what are you going to do?” and I reflexively replied: “I don’t know, what do you think?” (laughs)
Ana: You had to do something…
Fia: Mmm, I could suggest: “Maybe we should paint the walls?” and they said “Ok, what color?” I said “I don’t know…” and they: “Well we have red here…” “Ok, let’s take red…!” “Ah we have green too” “Ok”. Then they started to paint swatches, until finally one of them said: “I really like this orange, this it the one I would paint the walls with!” so I jumped on that: “Ok, let’s do that then!” I never took one decision but the first one. (laughs) It was a way to explore and play with what my position could be.
Ana: And how different was it at ICA?
Fia: At ICA my role was more towards a TV host like Oprah, with autocratic tendencies, so of course I had the final word if needed…
Ana: And Will Holder, the curator, was he just curating?
Fia: ‘Just’ curating this time – I tried to get him involved somehow, like the supreme leader, but he had decided to stand outside the whole structure.
Ana: As an omnipresent leader…
Fia: Yeah, hum hum…
Lisbon, June 2009
























































